Justified?

[hafizca]

hidden Wrote:Who thinks the war was justified? I am one that believes the War in Iraq is justifiable on several different levels but I do not think the admin did a very good job at promoting the war and because of this so many Americans now feel as if they were lied to.

Noone with a common sense can justify the Iraq invasion. Its an act aginst humanity which led the already suffering Iraqis into the worst condition they ever could have. I vote against Bush administration for their act of crime.

[Niki L]

Barack Obama is one example of a good politician that knows what it means to negotiate. It doesn't mean the same as to demand some leader of a country to surrender. That's not a very wise thing to do, but G.W. Bush didn't know/remember that as he demanded Saddam Hussein to surrender/go in exile in March 17th 2003, before attacking Baghdad two days later. What happened to the negotiations? Did they even try to talk with each other? The answer is no, because President Bush, in his own words, "doesn't discuss with terrorists".

I wonder, how different our world would be right now in case Al Gore had been elected for the U.S. President instead of G.W.Bush? Had there been the destruction of the Twin Towers, the war in Afghanistan or the war in Iraq? I believe not. I believe Al Gore would have arranged dozens of meetings with Saddam Hussein and some other Middle East countries. He would have done his everything to avoid the possible war and tried to discuss all the difficult issues thoroughly by following the simple principles of diplomacy.

Those principles include at least the following guidelines: be friendly, patient and polite; try not to threaten anybody without a reason; don't insult your co-negotiators or dismiss their opinions or views; don't make any of your co-negotiators feel too defensive; don't take sides when solving a conflict between two ethnic groups; try to seek for a solution via a reasonable and matter-of-fact discussion and negotiations and respect & learn the foreign cultures.

In my opinion, we don't need a superpower that attacks, without a real reason, the countries of the world that suffer already most of poverty, famine, disease, violence, the use of child labour, nature destructions and greedy regimes or dictators. What we need is a world where at least all the wealthy countries would participate more actively in the peacekeeping operations & programs, a world where development cooperation in developing countries would be taken more seriously and where politicians wouldn't give up after one or two meetings with some certain members of two groups of fightin' people.

My grandma has always said that there is no such a thing, no such a quarrel or fight that couldn't be solved via discussion. I couldn't agree more with my dear grandma, couldn't agree more. She is a wise woman, and I think that there is much we can learn from our parents and grandparents, but we have to make our own conclusions and pick up the pieces of advice and words of wisdom that support our personal philosophies and views of life.

G.W.Bush concentrated on finding justification for his senseless and way too hasty decisions on the beginning of military operations in Iraq. He was so impatient he didn't let the U.S. Intelligence do their work thoroughly before making his devastating mistakes. He was an over-eager military leader who didn't listen to the intelligence experts long enough, but instead was satisfied with that kind of unclear information that told him only, for example, that "Iraq is digging uranium ores in Africa" or that "Saddam Hussein may have some kinda connection with al Qaeda leaders".

No one knows even today for sure if there was a connection between Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden. No one knows either for sure if Iraq actually had those nuclear weapons and long-distance missiles which the UN Security Council suspected them to have. G.W.Bush justified the war by the assumed weapon hides of Iraq.

About three weeks before the United States started the military operations in Iraq on March 19th 2003, Saddam Hussein suggested a televised debate with G.W.Bush. Do you remember what was the response of the White House? You remembered right: the White House (G.W.Bush) didn't take the sign of good will seriously at all and refused to accept the invitation for the debate between the two presidents. That was obviously a major mistake because that debate might have been the very last chance to prevent the war in Iraq.

That kind of unspesific and, for most people, inadequate information was enough for the United States President, G.W.Bush. He didn't want to give the Intelligence the power to affect his decisions; he just wanted them to find something that would prove he was right as he was going to let the troops kill the innocent people in Iraq and as he decided not to talk with Saddam Hussein.

Terrible policymaking, just terrible. Words cannot describe properly how I feel when I think about Bush pondering the options in his militant head. I cannot believe he didn't choose to talk first and, then, if after countless times of serious discussion there hadn't been any result at all that would have given birth to a glimpse of hope that there could be a solution for the poor political situation and unsecure living in Iraq, he could've given orders to the soldiers to work as peacekeepers but he shouldn't have ever started any military operations against any groups in Iraq.

But no, it was impossible because of the unbelievable attitude of G.W.Bush. He doesn't talk with "terrorists". The whole unrest in Iraq was initially caused by the disputes and disagreements between the Shia muslims and Sunni muslims. The world leaders and leading policymakers shoud've focused on solving the problems between these two groups instead of starting an unnecessary war that has, so far, among other things cost the lives of thousands of civilians and soldiers and caused the poor economic situation (depression) in the U.S that affects the economic welfare of the rest of the world, as well.

Finally, I would like to say that terrorism will never end, unless we completely change our practice of foreign policies. It's all about our own attitudes. We mustn't be like George W. Bush. We have to understand that the terrorists are humans, too. They are not monsters with no brains nor motives. No, no, no. I'm so sick 'n tired with statements like this: "We won't stop fighting until every terrorist/rebel has been defeated (killed) or disarmed."

There are some very fundamental mistakes in this kind of statement. First, a statement like that shouldn't be given before asking for a cease-fire and having peacemaking talks with the representatives of all the groups of people involved in the battles. Second, it doesn't help much if you try to treat only the symptoms of the patient. It's highly essential to focus on finding out what has caused the disease and how to get rid of the disease before it's too late (i.e. It won't lead you nowhere if you try to eliminate all the rebels or enemies you encounter because new people are recruited all the time. Discussion and peacetalks are the only way to a happy ending.)

In conclusion, I say, let's throw the misleading, out-of-touch policies of G.W.Bush into a wooden boat, set the boat on fire and let the river take care of the rest, as the boat flows, slowly but firmly, towards the free fall of the Niagara Falls.

[tsmaster]

I really enjoy reading your posts Niki L - so much thought has been put into them. And you couldn't be more right either, someone like Al gore as president would be wicked. As well as trying to stop war at all costs, he would also take more steps to protect the environment.

[Niki L]

Thank you for your kind words, tsmaster. I'm really happy to hear that you like to read my posts. I enjoy reading your posts, too. I have noticed that we share many times almost the same views and opinions about several issues, such as the climate change, foreign policy and abortion. I'm looking forward to reading your posts also in the future and I'll continue to participate by posting my comments, always, when I've got some time for that.

[sunken]

It's hard to say what would have happened if Al Gore had become president. It's entirely possible that the Twin Towers still would have been a target for terrorists, though perhaps we would have had better defenses that day rather than what we had (air force running drills matching the same scenario as was happening in real life, delays in communication, etc). And that is disregarding the conspiracy theories.

I do think that there would have been some sort of military response to 9/11 targetted at Afghanistan. America wanted action and the president would have been forced into it. His own generals no doubt would have pushed for it in the tribal regions at the very least where Al Qaeda was. It may not have been as full scale as we saw with Bush, but it would have been something.

As for Iraq, I agree that Gore would have never gone into Iraq. A good majority of his base saw the fiasco that would come from attacking Iraq. We knew that it wouldn't just be a cakewalk, that the dynamics were too varied to guarantee success or even a goal of stability that could be reached. Gore would have certainly recognized this and not gone into Iraq.

So, IMO, we would have probably finished the war in Afghanistan and returned the focus to our internal infrastructure, instead of bankrupting the country as Bush is doing, which is what it seems was the goal of Osama to begin with.

[hkjojo]

hidden Wrote:Who thinks the war was justified? I am one that believes the War in Iraq is justifiable on several different levels but I do not think the admin did a very good job at promoting the war and because of this so many Americans now feel as if they were lied to.

I would ask you to view Frontline's Bush's War and then ask the question.

I'm of the opinion that we needed to continue in Afghanistan and should have been there since the Russians left. We dropped the ball there. What kind of world might it have been if Afghanistan had been left with a functioning infrastructure and government?

I think that GW Bush wanted to push the Iraq question because he wanted to prove that he could do it...just like dear old dad.